Heidegger

—– Original Message —–
From: “Malcolm Riddoch”

> On 29/05/2006, at 5:06 AM, Anthony Crifasi wrote:
>
>> From: “Malcolm Riddoch”
>>> You deny then that murdering 100+ people in a village then publicly
>>> exaggerating the massacre as a massacre is a ‘massacre’? How is that
>>> logical?
>>
>> When one side claims “murder” and the other side claims other reasons
>> for civilian deaths during fighting, higher numbers always favor the
>> side claiming “murder.” So when the casualities turn out not as high…
>
> … Yes, what then? You seem to be arguing by ellipsis now Anthony.

Ellipses save one the embarassment of having to explain a childishly obvious
consequence to an adult.

>> To remove Arabs because they are blockading roads is not the same as
>> removing Arabs just because they are Arabs. The characterization “ethnic
>> cleansing” is deceptive.
>
> According to Benny Morris’ research into the National Israeli archives of
> the time the term ‘to cleanse’ was used frequently by officers under Ben
> Gurion’s command, and the clear intention behind the various massacres
> (and there were more than just Deir Yassin, including the rape and murder
> of girls and women) and the propaganda use of these crimes to terrorise
> the Palestinians was to ethnically cleanse the lands of Israel. Basically
> it was the problem of Lebensraum again, and from what I’ve read there
> were military forces under Ben Gurion’s command that were every bit as
> ruthlessly efficient as the Einsatzgruppen SS - http://
>www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com

Efficient, perhaps. “Ethnic cleansing,” depends.

> And why not? They were fighting a war for self-determination and their
> right to exist after all. I also find the notion that Jewish Special
> Forces are somehow to be considered as less professional than say French,
> German, Australian, British or US Special Forces rather condescending.

I said that - when?

>>> Now here’s where it gets interesting. What you are explaining here is
>>> the justification for cleansing, as in the practical necessity of
>>> driving Palestinians from their homes in order to secure Jerusalem for
>>> Jews.
>>
>> That “practical necessity” arose from the fact that the road into
>> Jerusalem was being relentlessly blockaded, resulting in Jerusalem
>> starving. If the road hadn’t been blockaded, then there would have been
>> no such “practical necessity” in order to secure Jerusalem.
>
> Yes, that is what I’m saying. There was a practical necessity, the war
> for Jewish self-determination against the Palestinian Arabs, and
> demographically speaking a Jewish majority in Israel can only even now be
> ensured by excluding the Palestinians. The state of Israel would not have
> come into being without Ben Gurion’s Palestinian diaspora. Like any
> colonial project, someone loses their land one way or another.

In this particular case, someone lost their land by blockading Jerusalem.

>> It also doesn’t help when people claim “massacre” whether or not there
>> really is one.
>
> Again, I think if you read up on the current debate you’ll find that the
> general historical consensus is that massacres did occur. Are you a
> revisionist Anthony?

I do revise when new revelations come to light.

>>> Again, half a propagandized massacre is then somehow a revelatory non-
>>> massacre?
>>
>> See above concerning the relationship between claimed casualties and the
>> characterization of “massacre” as opposed to other reasons for civilian
>> deaths that can arise during fighting.
>
> Do you mean your crazy elipsis argument? If Jewish Israeli’s can freely
> and openly debate these historical problems, in Israel, why can’t you?
> What drives an ultra-conservative Texan Catholic of mixed parentage to
> such levels of vapid dissemblance? Well you know what Anthony? War is
> actually bad, it’s a form of evil in itself, and when it erupts out of
> control does it surprise you that the kids fighting it go a bit crazy?

No. Nor does it surprise me that atrocities would be fabricated during war.

> I feel sorry for these poor stupid bastards for instance, or at least for
> their families:
>
> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info…
>
> Apparently in war all bets are off and war crimes happen. War is
> institutionalised mass murder after all and while the young grunts might
> hang who’s going to judge the leaders that sent these kids to die? How
> much is the control of oil worth it do you think?

Proof: US gas prices are now the lowest ever.

Posted on Monday, May 29th, 2006 at 9:00 am
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