New and Improved
May 4th, 2008, search relatedRelated posts :: The Truth of Who Jud Is. :: The Truth of Who Jud Is. :: The Truth of Who Jud Is. :: home thoughts from abroad (1)
Anthony Crifasi wrote:
>Joseph Polanik wrote:
>>Anthony,
>>one of your crucial claims seems to be that the proposition ‘I remain
>>self-identical throughout all my perceptions’ is a necessary condition
>>of existence.
>>this proposition may be symbolized, as follows:
>>[1]: P -> Q
>>where
>>P = ‘I exist’
>>Q = ‘I remain self-identical throughout all my perceptions’
>>you also claim that Q is false.
>>[2]: -Q
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Psychiatric Evidence for a Schizo-Epistemology
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>>I gave you my reason for doubting that the proposition in question is
>>self-evidently true: the counseling profession is devoted to breaking
>>this assumed self-identity over time. often, a counselee is helped to
>>understand that “I am not the person I once was” or “I can change”.
>>>the relevant cases from the “counseling profession,” are the ones in
>>>which people stop referring to themselves in the past by the first
>>>person pronoun. Those in the “counseling profession” consider that to
>>>be a sign of a complete break in self-identity (e.g., schizophrenia,
>>>in which the different “selves” refer to each other in the 3rd
>>>person). Hence, those in the “counseling profession” agree with me
>>>that the identity of the first person pronoun is necessarily tied to
>>>self-identity.
>>Objections to your latest attempt to distract attention from the
>>gaping contradictions already noted above:
>>* you have confused schizophrenia with multiple personality disorder.
>>with MPD, each personality will refer to itself in the first person
>>and to the others in the third person. with schizophrenia there is
>>often a loss of the first person perspective in favor of a third
>>person perspective.
>>* in any event, … so what? some psychiatric disorders have symptoms
>>including disturbed self-reference; and, therefore, … what?
>>are you saying that Q is a necessary condition of existence (even
>>though you assume Q is false); because, some psychiatric patients have
>>disturances of self-reference?
>The “counseling profession” considers losses of the first person
>perspective to be indicative of a rift in self-identity itself, since
>their diagnosis is that there would then literally be several selves.
>The implied assumption, therefore, is that the first person perspective
>is necessarily tied to self-identity.
the first person perspective is necessarily tied to first-person
self-referencing. there is no implication that the referent of
successive acts of self-referencing will be identical.
if you are making such an assumption; then, your argument depends on an
assumption that is contrary to fact.
>You, on the other hand, have been attempting to counter that the
>consistent use of the first person pronoun is not necessarily tied to
>identity in the referent at all. So the very “counseling profession”
>that you cited before disagrees with you.
you seem to sense that your argument is dying; for, you are starting to
trade on the transparent ambiguity of ‘identity’ vs ‘identical’ and
possibly on the murky ambiguity of ’self-’ as noun vs ’self-’ as
pronoun.
an identity as a set of self-identifications (affirmations of the form:
I am [a(n)] X) can change over time; but, what is your evidence that the
counseling profession does not seek to facilitate such change?
how does the evidence from the psychiatric ward help prove
[1]: P -> Q
where
P = ‘I exist’
Q = ‘I remain self-identical throughout all my perceptions’
and you also claim that Q is false.
[2]: -Q
how does any of this help you establish your new schizo-epistemology?
you are saying that a necessary condition of existence is a false
proposition — a condition that does not obtain. and, as evidence, you
cite your own idiosyncratic intepretation of schizophrenic symptoms.
this is your argument for [1]?
Joe
–
Philosophy is, after all, done ultimately in the first person for the
first person. — H-N Castaneda
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http://what-am-i.net
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